1. Scott Jenson: <a class="h-x-username auto-link" href="https://twitter.com/BarnabyWalters">Barnaby Walters</a> FYI, this is how your tweet looks. I realize *why* of course but this feels only 50% POSSE <a class="auto-link" href="https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BTHO_gmCcAAH7y2.png">pic.twitter.com/dBGiKU0Rqi</a>

    @scottjenson referring to the truncation? I know what you mean, I made the conscious decision to ignore the length of truncated copies of my content as I didn’t want what felt like an unnecessary limitation of Twitter limiting my self-expression.

    Others (Tantek Çelik in particular) care more about the quality of their POSSEd notes, and build UIs which inform them when their notes go over tweet- or retweet-safe lengths. This is one of the places diversity of implementations helps us experiment without having to argue about stuff :)

    One interesting alternative is to spread the content of notes which are too long for a tweet over several tweets, but that leads to all sorts of weird directionality changes, potential for them to be interrupted, extra permalinks, etc.

  2. Scott Jenson: <a class="h-x-username auto-link" href="https://twitter.com/chrismessina">Chris Messina™</a> <a class="h-x-username auto-link" href="https://twitter.com/ade_oshineye">Adewale Oshineye</a> New to me but they look great! Similar to Camlistore? An easier way to accomplish IndieWeb's POSSE?

    @scottjenson @chrismessina @ade_oshineye technically lockerproject looks more like PESOS. Also re: ID stuff, you’ve seen indieauth.com right? Lots of shiny new stuff there recently like persona integration, passwordless SMS login etc.

  3. Ben Werdmuller: Government - the last great gatekeeper - is ripe for disruption.

    The first is to publicly declare the jurisdiction in which you live, and in which your data is hosted. That way, people can make an informed decision about how to communicate with you.

    That’s a really brilliant idea. Maybe link the brand names to their tosdr.org pages too.

  4. I just faked having a task queue for note posting tasks using Symfony HttpKernel::terminate() and it was the easiest thing ever.

    Instances or subclasses of HttpKernel have a terminate($request, $response) method which, if called in the front controller after $response->send(); triggers a kernel.terminate event on the app’s event dispatcher. Listeners attached to this event carry out their work after the content has been sent to the client, making it the perfect place to put time-consuming things like POSSE and webmention sending.

    Once you’ve created your new content and it’s ready to be sent to the client, create a new closure which carries out all the the time consuming stuff and attach it as a listener to your event dispatcher, like this:

    $dispatcher->addListener('kernel.terminate', function() use ($note) {
        $note = sendPosse($note);
        sendWebmentions($note);
        $note->save();
    }
    

    Then, provided you’re calling $kernel->terminate($req, $res); in index.php, your callback will get executed after the response has been sent to the client.

    If you’re not using HttpKernel and HttpFoundation, the exact same behaviour can of course be carried out in pure PHP — just let the client know you’ve finished sending content and execute code after that. Check out these resources to learn more about how to do this:

    Further ideas: if the time consuming tasks alter the content which will be shown in any way, set a header or something to let the client side know that async stuff is happening. It could then re-fetch the content after a few seconds and update it.


    Sure, this isn’t as elegant as a message queue. But as I showed, it’s super easy and portable, requiring the addition of three or four lines of code.

  5. Ben Werdmuller: Indieweb video test

    @benwerd nice one! I’m currently working on video post-by-email. It almost worked here, next time should work flawlessly.

    The nice thing about using email to post videos is that it’s asyncronous — I can send the email and then go do something else, instead of having to either wait for it to upload or do the “if I switch apps now will it stop uploading argh what do I do” dance.

  6. Aral Balkan: Deleted tweets shouldn’t be deleted; they should be shown as deleted. The content is already out there. It is the _intention_ that matters.

    Aral Balkan there’s been a lot of discussion recently about deletion of content — some documented here: indiewebcamp.com/deleted and indiewebcamp.com/POSSE#Delete

    E.G. if I’ve replied to one of your notes/tweets and stored a reply context so even if your copy goes down my content still makes sense, but you delete the original — should I delete it, devaluing my own content? Should I mark it as changed or deleted?

  7. shawfactor: Thoughts on extending webmentions

    Great work getting webmention set up and your content marked up with microformats!

    At the moment of the method is built around a POSSE architecture. This works well for long form articles which can stand alone but address issues or ideas that are posted on an external website.

    The evidence is against you here, as almost all known usage of webmention has been for short replies which don’t make sense without context.

    But if that is all there is to webmentions it is just a nicer implementation of Pingback.

    Pingback succeeded because it was simple. Webmention is even simpler, for good reason.

    However the current workflow is awkward and i doubt it will catch on with the general public. Sophisticated Indieweb users can and will read an article on an external site and then return to their own to post a comment, but that king of behaviour is not intuitive.

    I absolutely agree! I’m trying various different approaches to making this easier (and making web content more actionable in general), currently I’m using web action toolbelt to really quickly reply to content on other sites. There’s been a lot of discussion about this, and it’s something which everyone can work on as more people start implementing indieweb comments.

    I make the comment on the external site and as part of making the comment I add my author url, that being the url of my own site. The external site then sends a webmention of the comment to my site. My own site could then scrapes my comment and saves a copy in my CMS. Otionall  I could republish the comment in my blog or activity feed at my discretion. Thus fully implementing PESOS.

    We actually discussed this exact flow at IWCUK 2012, but no-one ever implemented it because, with browser extensions, there’s no need to log in to other people’s sites (complex to implement) and have those sites post to each other (security hole).

    Thanks for bringing these issues up, it’s great to have new people join the discussion! I’ll start documenting your points on the Indiewebcamp wiki — it’s there and on the IRC room where most discussion takes place.

  8. “For a platform to be reliable, it must either have a single implementation, or be so utterly simple that it can be implemented uniformly. If we assume a practical need for open, freely implementable standards, the only option is simplicity.”

    Magic Ink, @worrydream

  9. So I got in-stream reply contexts showing — perhaps summaries of comments next? I like Facebook’s approach of showing the last 4, a total count and a “show me more” button, which could be implemented simply as a link to the note page initially.

    Reply context stream example: http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes?tagged=reply

    Still TODO: make the ↪ a link to the in-replied-to page, add the datetime to the title for that link, remove the in-reply-to info from the bottom of in-stream notes as it’s noise now

  10. Glenn Jones: Looking at how to add <a class="auto-link" href="http://webmention.org/">webmention.org</a> to new blog - going to be interesting time designing and coding it cc <a class="h-x-username auto-link" href="https://twitter.com/indiewebcamp">IndieWebCamp</a>

    Glenn Jones yay! Looking forward to exchanging mentions :)